WARNING: This whole thing is a spoiler. Here's my abbreviated best reconstruction of the world of Ergo Proxy. It's the background to the story, and not intended to get into specific mysteries of the series:
Way back when, there was some kind of holocaust (nuclear) the made the planet barren. Some of the humans retreated to a giant spaceship (ark) in orbit. There wasn't room for everybody - it was bad times for the ones that stayed behind.
The retreating humans created 300 Proxies to take care of the place while they were out. The proxies contain an incredible amount of energy, and are capable of impressive feats of strength. They also contain amrita cells, which make them impervious to normal damage. However, very specific, high-energy waves can destroy amrita cells. Proxy's themselves can generate such waves, enabling them to kill each other. Proxies have another weakness - natural sunlight kills them. This is normally not a problem, since the world is shrouded in clouds and all the proxies live in domes anyhow.
Back to the story: After being created, each proxy was programmed to build an artificial womb and create the creatures that lived inside it. The proxies effectively bootstrapped dome creation - the womb made people, people made autoraves, and the combination of the two built the domes and maintained order. However, (this part is conjecture) the humans (psuedohumans?) created by the artificial womb are sterile. They can't reproduce without it. And the artificial womb draws its power from the proxy. So no proxy -> no womb -> no more psuedo-humans.
That last part is important. It means the proxies the lynchpin of the whole system, take them out and it falls apart. Now normally having a single point of failure for a complex system is a bad thing, it makes it very fragile. In this case though, it's a feature. The humans in space want to make sure there's nothing on the ground when they finally come back to rebuild their civilization. To such ends, they built a couple of flaws into the proxies:
1) Proxies have souls/hearts. As a result over a very long time they start to get lonely, since each proxy lives by itself in a dome and has no real peers. This loneliness can cause a couple of different psychological problems:
- Aggressiveness: Proxies become either self-destructive, or homicidal. Either way, the dome that depends on them is in trouble.
- Proxies can become escapist - they flee their domes and try to forget. This will also result in the dome dying.
- Proxies may seek out other proxies to feel less lonely. Which leads to point 2:
2) Proxies are programmed to kill other proxies. In addition to killing off potential resistance for when the space-humans return, this forces proxies to always remain in isolation, adding to the loneliness factor.
3) Proxies die in sunlight. Once the planet recovers, the proxies will no longer be able to live on it.
The story takes place during the last stage of this process - the planet is recovering, and as a result the carefully programmed proxies are beginning to self-destruct. This is referred to as the "heartbeat of awakening;" it's unclear whether the heartbeat is something started in the proxies automatically in response to environmental factors, or if it's being broadcast from the ark in space, though the specific source is not important.
Once the proxies complete their self-destruction, the planet will be clear for the space-humans to return. This is where the series ends, with Vincent outside the remains of the last dome, and the returning human ships descending from the sky.
Wow, thank you for taking the time to write this. Not only was it completely informative, it was also very well articulated. Laying out the story in such a linear way really helps me understand the series.
ReplyDeleteAre you planning on delving deeper into the mysteries of the series, or making character profiles/theories? The internet is in dire need of something like an Ergo Proxy wiki. For a series so complex, I'm surprised there are so few discussion threads on it!
You saved me the trouble of watching the series to learn about what proxies are, which was the only point interesting me.
ReplyDeleteI suppose the last episode could be worth watching.
It was well stated at the beginning of the article that it contained spoilers, and big spoilers. So no, the author did not saved you from watching, you deprived yourself that joy my friend. Have a good life!
DeletePerhaps there is no real answer. Why create pseudo-humans, domes, proxies, etc at all? If the planet is poisoned one could leave the planet and come back in thousands of years without all this mess about proxies and what not. As far as I'm concerned the whole thing is unnecessary. If we humans did destroy our own world somehow, we would probably seek refuge in space and just hang out for thousands of years. Do you have an answer for what I feel is the most obvious question?
ReplyDeletevaliage.legato@gmail.com
@Michael
ReplyDeleteThis is actually explained in one of the episodes, can't recall which one, and the answer might still not satisfy you.
Basically, it's the "if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it..." thing.
The philosophical problem presented in the series, and the only fathomable reason why original humans would go through the whole trouble of creating Proxies and sending them to Earth to begin with, is that a planet emptied, not inhabited by any beings whatsoever, ceases to exist because there's no one there to perceive it.
Thus, creating Proxies, whom in turn created domes, which in turn hosted the WombSys, which in turn created humans, whom in turn created AutoLaves, original humans were ensuring that their planet would still be there when they came back.
Sensible? Hardly. But then again, Philosophy is not about making sense.
Oh dear, as a philosopher in heart and in mind - and in degree - I take serious offence in that last part ;)
DeleteThe way you tell it, it is all dependent on Berkeley's philosophy, indeed, that for objects ('bodies') to exist, they must be perceived. However, the infinite spirit (god) who perceives us and the world ensures that when we look away form something and back again, it will be there waiting for us.
So in fact, the proxies were not necessary at all, if you base your justification on Berkeley's "esse est percipi" and "esse est perciperum" principles.
That said, I do indeed find it reasonable that the domes somehow contributed to clearing up the air - cleaning up earth - but strangely enough, the producers never seemed to have seen this obvious idea as necessary.
Oh well: very well made series, nonetheless. Out of the 40+ anime that I've seen, this one goes straight into the top 5, without any discussion whatsoever.
Pino is the bomb.
So not at all sensible that I can't buy it, though that seems to be the only theme presented in the story that's applicable here. But still . . . I took this philosophical tangent as applying identity, possibly even to reality on a whole. But to shoes and pizza and celestial bodies?? Why not monitor the planet from space if this absurd notion could ever really be a concern?
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure the reason the proxies and pseudo humans were created was for the sole purpose that should their space vessel fail, the human race would not go completely extinct. This is also why the Cogito virus exists. If both the pseudo humans die out, and the space vessel fails, what would remain are human creations with souls of their own, if not entirely human on their own. It would at least leave some form of life behind. I think we can all agree that Pino was pretty human at the end, and that a cogito infected autorave(sp?) gets more and more human-like, the longer they survive.
ReplyDeleteThank you for bringing out the Cogito virus, because I felt it was the main idea of the entire series. As the phrase says "cogito ergo sum" "I am thinking, therefore I exist". This idea is what is presented on the first episode, and what triggers the adventure outside the dome. Of course what David says '"if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it..."' is also part of this idea. I think it all means that Proxys were not needed in the end for them to exist!
DeleteThey lived with the knowledge that the Proxys were the only thing creating them since the Proxys created the wombs and the wombs created the humans, and the humans created the autorave, so the Proxys were the link between life (existing) and death. No Proxy, no life. But, if the autorave that were human made could in fact exist without a link to humans (meaning they had souls of their own and did not need the humans to exist on their own) then the humans did not need the Proxys.
I just finished watching the series and viewing your comments cause the ending was not so clear. The excuses for everything of the writer of the series, I did not like. The writer should have just said that proxies were aliens or something instead of a human creation. They create a super human to survive in Earth and that super human (if you can call it that way) creates humans. If those other humans could survive on Earth why not the regular humans do the same.I liked the series until the explanation of this last episode. Made me feel the unsatisfied like when I finished seeing Guin Saga. Although Guin Saga is an incomplete story. But, Ergo Proxy should have had another explanation for proxies being proxies. My opinion anyway.
ReplyDeleteMy god, the mention of Guin Saga made me laugh so hard. An incomplete tale that actually wasn't about Guin at all. lolz.
DeleteOk. So anime is not perfect. People are weird. Perfectly normal under the circumstance.
@J.Rivera
ReplyDeleteThe problem was normal humans couldn't survive on Earth, thus the artificial wombs. If you remember in one of the episodes Re-l, Vincent, and Pino come across the weird cave dwelling creatures. Re-l realizes from the cave drawings that the creatures give live birth. This likely means that the creatures were descendents of the original humans, who through live birth, became mutated by Earth's unlivable atmosphere. That's why proxies were instructed to create a womb so the humans on Earth wouldn't go through live birth and become mutated. Also, the original humans instructed the proxies to create humans on Earth in the first place as a strategy to preserve the human race. So the main colony of humans are in space, there's a colony of humans on the Earth, and there's also the cogito virus as a fail-safe in case humans should be annihilated. This is all in an attempt to preserve some form of the human race.
Which episode is the 'Ark' mentioned? I think I may have missed the episode where they found Mosque. Thank you for explaining it though.
ReplyDeleteThe first episode I recall mentioning the Ark was in the episode called "The Nightmare Quiz Show Live!" which seemed like an episode you could just skip but it did provide a lot of information in a scattered way.
DeleteA couple of things:
ReplyDelete1) There wasn't a nuclear explosion. The planet was poisoned by methane gas mining (huamns looking for a miracle source of energy). Mining accidents replaced oxygen with methand and made the earth unsuitable for any kind of life.
2) The domes were created to help get the eco system back in order and to provide a place where the space faring could return. Human waste was encouraged to help start the cycle of the ecosystem again. The domes also were meant for genetic diversity. Both domes and spacefarers would repopulate the world once the methane gas dissipated and it was livable again. It just took longer than they calculated.
3) The Proxies (hence the name)were created to care for and nurture the remaining human population in the domes. But by the pulse of awakening (the awakening of the planet to being livable again), the proxies realized that a) they had failed in their main objective: to keep the population safe. Since the humans lost the ability to breed, they were no longer useful (why Kazkis and many other Proxies destroyed their humans). This is the caged animal syndrome. And b) the head proxie, Proxie One, resented that the proxies were to be destroyed since he considered them as viable as humans. So he rebelled against them (as does Vincent in the end).
4) Over the ages in the domes, humans lost the ability to breed (again, 'caged animal' syndrome). Some proxies, as with Romdeau, found a way to use humans who had deformed over time living in the methane/oxygen pockets underground outside the domes - those original humans had viable wombs still. Their bodies were used to keep populations going in some domes. But other domes just completely died out as their populations over time became sterile. And others, as with Asura and Kazkis/Senekis, were destroyed by their proxies.
5) Each proxie was given creative freedom on how to create their dome societies. This was done to help create diversity among cultures and populations. Everything from idealistic post war 1950s America to Disneyland amusement to a Greek Philosophical City-State was created.
6) The leaders of Romdeau loved their Proxie (Vincent/Ergo) but when Vincent chose to lose his memories to become more human (and not have to face his emissary duty of killing off the proxies with pulse of awakening), he abandoned the dome. In retaliation, Romdeau fired missles on Mosk (where they knew Ergo Proxy fled). Mosk was Proxy 13's (Monad's) dome - but she was greatly damaged in the process of taking away Ergo's memories so she could not protect her dome and was captured by Romdeau and used in experiments. Those experiments resulted in Re-L, whose genetics link back to Monad (Monad's human side). Ergo and Vincent are so obsessed with Re-L because she is what Ergo/Vince had tried to become - a human free of the Proxie side.
Okay, big question! Would you think that at the end of the series, Vincent, now not his full self(ERGO), could survive under a blue sky, meaning he isn't fully a Proxy? And wouldn't Real die being half of Monad and Monad being a Proxy?
ReplyDeletejust saying: 'ergo' is not 'self', it means 'therefore'. You're confusing 'ergo' with 'ego', which does mean 'self'.
DeleteNo. the PP wasn't meant to go haywire like that. What was meant to happen is that the domes would be sustained until people returned.
ReplyDeleteThink of them as colonization of an otherwise uninhabitable planet, just like the moon. The real insidiousness comes when you realize that those people were created as a slave/servant class to the "real" humans. These people will die almost immediately from exposure to "outside" air, they can't procreate, etc. Their entire existence is maintaining the domes. This point is hammered into you again and again throughout the series.
They were created to make these habitable colonies, maintain them, and then die off when "real humans" returned, leaving the "real humans" with places to live. I assume the Boomerang Project had similar houses and cities built on it when they left. Basically, the idea is to never have to go through the struggle of rebuilding towns and living with practically nothing.
That's why, beyond the necessary minimal number of citizens needed to maintain order, all those "empty towns" were being maintained by robots constantly mowing and watering lawns, etc.
We know that the species of humans put in the domes was already winding down through the fact that they had massive graveyards and almost no population to speak of, which gives further credence to the idea that it was all orchestrated and timed so that few to none would still be alive when "real humans" returned, but that they would "go out" peacefully.
The glitches are not meant to occur. Why would you want to come back to burnt out husks? Why not come back to a perpetual motion machine city a la proxies, with premade living spaces? The humans living in those domes were slaves all along, and were meant to die off before the other humans got back.
Thank you! This was the most sensible and complete explanation out of all the other stuff I've read so far.
DeleteThe problem with the story for most of us non-Japanese speakers is that it depends entirely on the scripts translation. Proxy One was distraught because his creations were for naught and had to be eliminated. The Proxies themselves had mostly gone mad from existing for over 7000+ years. Frankly they welcomed death. That is not the issue.
ReplyDeleteThe issue is that they loved their creations. However their human creations were merely a back-up copy of original humans in the event the Boomerang Project was unsuccessful. AKA Plan B. In the end it is clear that the boomerang project was a success, thus negating the need for the back-up copy of humans.
That is what angered Proxy One and caused Ergo Proxy to abandon himself and his creations. From how I take the story, the proxies main job was to create livable habitats for the exiled humans to return to. Someplace safe and hospitable for them. Upon their return; both the Proxies and Pseudo-humans would be purged.
That is what Proxy One meant by his vengeance. It wasn't destroying the pseudo-humans(they were all going to die anyways) but the destruction of the livable habitats for the original humans who ran away and the creation of an Agent of Death to punish them for all the pain they caused. A Proxy who was not bound by the creators whim. By doing so it also became the salvation of the remaining pseudo-humans.
In the end the original humans are going to have some major explaining to do but it'll probably end in a war of survival for all involved. They are not going to be expecting Vincent on their return and he is probably going to do horrible things to the creators. This is why Monad choose death; so she wouldn't have to bear witness to the horror.
Wow! I totally agree with you! Thank you!
Deletesuch a wonderful story of rebellion. i would say the most existentialist work i've ever seen. but im sure im forgettig some good ones.
ReplyDeleteThe humans ran with their tails wagging in a space ship. Had the TECHNOLOGY / Knowhow to CREATE a pruxy moron who could RECREATE humans and whatnot...but alas, they didnt had the means to cure earth's deadly inhabitable methane dispersion.
ReplyDeleteHonestly i think the author of this anime was on drugs for more than half the episodes. Nonsense.
I want to ask about the idea that the pseudo-humans can't breed.
ReplyDeleteSo they are the inhabitants of the domes and created from the artificial womb, but what about the people outside the domes? the soldiers who were fighting in Charos, or Hoody, Quin and the others. Didn't Quin have a child called Timothy? was he her real child?...and aside from the ones outside Romdou, didn't Raul Creed himself have a wife and child with Pino's purpose being to care for the baby? did I misunderstand this part? I thought at least I had Raul Creed figured out!
Are all these children from the artificial womb and only put into families to maintain a shape of society?....I won't even ask over Re-l calling the regent her grandfather.
Maybe these were all explained in the series and I missed them.
The soldier say they can keep fighting as long as the production room is safe. Which probably means the artificial womb to create more soldier.
DeleteHoody says that people living outskirt of the dome either escaped the dome or choose to leave the dome them self. Quin probably leave the dome with her child to find a better one.
Raul's wife did say to vincent when he comes to repair pino that the welfare department gave them a child they always wanted.
I think you really need to watch Ergo Proxy again, only this time listen to what they are saying more carefully
Er, it wasn't a holocaust. It was explained in episode 15 that the environment was destroyed due to a runaway reaction of some new methane based power source. Also the proxy project was plan B after the Boomerang ship (the ark) presumably failed (also episode 15). Gonna have to take the rest of the interpretation with a huge grain of salt. Not much in this series was clear but the origin of the disaster certainly was...
ReplyDeleteThe natural sunlight killing them was an intentional part of their design to make them go away when the atmosphere cleared up.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThe new fuel source was Methane Hydrate (one of the questions in the MC Q gameshow episodes explains this). There was a chain reaction with the methane hydrate that resulted in the planet becoming uninhabitable.
DeleteAlso, read Re-L's journal notes in the "busy doing nothing" episode, when they have no wind and are temporarily stranded. You can see she wrote "burning ice" or something like that, with arrows pointing to "MC Q" and "methane hydrate", meaning the chain reaction that destroyed the planet resulted in the volatile methane hydrate leaving frozen waves and sheets of frozen flaming ice across the world's surface. Pay attention to the landscapes each time they sail around on the senson - you can see bizarre ice formations resembling ocean waves that simply froze still.
if the proxies can be cloned why the heck they dont clone themselves some mates? why all the loneliness -.- they are all powerful but can't do the work deadalus can??
ReplyDelete"2) Proxies are programmed to kill other proxies. In addition to killing off potential resistance for when the space-humans return, this forces proxies to always remain in isolation, adding to the loneliness factor."
DeleteRead it first.
@mwxcv The part I don't understand is that this theory makes sense in most cases, but what about the bond between Ergo Proxy and that other proxy that he ran off with before the events of the series? (forgot her name, but she was recreated in the Re-l clone with the wings at the end.)
DeleteAlso, the bond between Kazkis and Sennex??? Wat?
Delete@Darby and @mwxcv
DeleteMaybe not all Proxies were programmed to kill each other. Only Ergo Proxy, the agent of DEATH. I don't recall any other Proxies throughout the series killing each other. Vincent / Ergo was the only one doing the killing (he killed Monad, then Senex and Kazkis, the cave proxy and finally Proxy One), the other proxies actually seemed to like each other. Maybe that was part of Proxy One's revenge; to create a Proxy that will kill all the other ones, thus destroying all the other domes and having the "creators" (real humans) return to a planet with nothing to call home.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete"Fellow citizens! Do your part, and make waste"
ReplyDeleteHey there I just watched the series again after so many years and something very apparent came to me.
As to the question why the proxies were made and why they were made to build the domes and create people.
Building on the hypothesis that the planet was destroyed by a nuclear war (the Rupture was a nuke) and actually seeing many nukes being fired in one of the flashbacks. After such a world ending event the planet would naturally go to a state of nuclear winter, we even see the whole world basically frozen by this phenomenon.
Well the proxies were tools to speed up the recovery of the planet.
I remember one of the first things that stuck in my mind: Fellow citizens! Do your part, and make waste
by making waste and dumping all this crap outside they were actually warming the planet up. We see that the land around the domes is warm and the water is flowing.
They were causing the global warming to speed up the whole process.
As to the creators vs proxies... they knew that when the proxies did their part the light would shine again ergo there would be no more angry pissed off super-beings and without the proxies the domes and their inhabitants would just perish in time.
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The Boomerang/ARK- is a ship sent into space with most of the humans. After trying to find a new fuel- Earth became almost uninhabitable. The outside became toxic so the domes were made and proxys too to protect and look after the world until the humans returned - (Boomerangs always come back). The Proxy which is Vincent- Proxy of Death- is there to kill all the other Proxies once the humans on the Ark return. The creatures shown in the caves who are being poisoned but can't escape without dying symbolize the Dome. People in the Domes/Dome aren't dying from poison but they can no longer leave. When the humans from the Ark return, the Domes will no longer be needed and the humans in them will likely be wiped out. This is why I think Re-L's grandfather planned to use the missile to blow up the humans when they returned- the domes and proxies would all be killed because they would no longer have a function and couldn't live in the world. However Rhaul destroys the missile the grandfather had planned to use. ( I think, not so sure of this but Rhaul is supposed to be good). The missile is called 'The Rapture'. This suggests that its used to take the humans to heaven. Re-L has called the Dome a haven multiple times which conveys that "The Rapture" missile is planned to kill the humans when they return so those in "Heaven"/the Dome can stay alive. Another pointer is at the start- Vincent never opens his eyes. You don't need to know this but I think this is a pointer that he is shutting himself from any truth. "Fellow Citizens" follow blindly and do not question the Dome.
ReplyDeleteI would to add/counter-argue that the pseudohumans are not sterile. Although, in the wombsis they are programmed without the knowledge/instinct of reproduction. There is some evidence that a few individuals living outside the domes namely Quin with her child, realized this truth and thus reproduced. It seems as though Re-l found this truth when the group discovered the cave-dwellers (mutated humans). This leads to the probability of Re-l and human side of Vincent pro-creating, along with the other pseudohumans still populating the world (as there are still colony's that have not yet seen destruction). This brings us to the end of the series where it is Vincents realization/a vengeance, as the shadow (Agent of Death) of Proxy 1, to destroy the Creators (original humans) upon they're arrival to Earth and lead the domineering pseudohumans to repopulate the planet.
ReplyDeleteJust finished watching ergo proxy the series is so open to interpretation maybe you need to find your own truth like Lil did at the end certainly seems like each of you have done so.
ReplyDeleteInspector Lil hated Romdeau she called it the "the city of lies, then she began an investigation, she encountered the outside world-a different reality and could not ignore it, eventually she found the truth or she chose her own truth and told Vincent law to find his truth- instead of choosing to forget he choose to face the reality before him with lil because he loved her and all she wanted was to be loved.
faced with this truth he could not allow this reality [his and lils and The world that existed to that point] to be eradicated for the convenience of the the originals so he chooses war.
not to mention all the other factors mentioned above cognito,wombs, empty domes, defect proxies.
I think at the end the author wanted every person to see a different truth but in the end there is one truth that is your own.
human beings are imperfect and so are our creations, we are not Gods- the proxies are imperfect self-destructive beings a story of human nature/ human history through the ages -selfishness, greed, destruction, war,love,loneliness, survival.
{philosophy}the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence.The anime is a philosophical journey that leaves me with more answers than questions.
So is Re-L able to have a kid with Vincent? Asking the real question right here.
ReplyDeleteAt the end when Vincent said he was the agent of death. What exactly did that mean? Was he going to kill the humans that were coming back
ReplyDeleteUpon reading the comments above I was glad to see so many common answers and explanations, this anime is truly a gem which can be up for debate, which delightfully can drag on for days if you ask me. Philosophical in every episode, it brings you to the point you'd question the meaning behind every event for each character. by the end of the last episode I was left with some unfinished thoughts however:
ReplyDelete1-though the center of the plot revolves around the role of proxies and the cogito virus and the connection tying them all, I see another theme thrown in there from observing the behaviors of the Proxies with each other. Each proxy had a title "meaning" or "reison d'etre",it was only apparent to us when Vincent arrives to Halos and learns of the proxy of moonlight and then meet the proxy of sun, now the affinity between the too sheds some interesting facts to us. these proxies were practically in charge of the same dome which was divided in extreme twos and they did not try to kill each other but rather were lovers, this indicates to us that proxies weren't programmed to exterminate other proxies, except for one, the one with the obvious title of "proxy of Death". if you remember the comments of Kazkis when he met Vincent he mentioned that Vincent is a friend because he sees death, referring to the fact that he is the one designated to kill all proxies in the end as the proxy of death, but proxy one was not happy with the prospect of killing everyone for the sake of the creators plans, so he created his clone out of conflict and rage.
2-The affinity between Kazkis/Senekis is the same one between Ergo and Monad, because they are polar opposites, Life and death. Monad meaning unique or associated with gods and Life itself. the unexplainable reason why vincent was drawn to Re-l is because she was essentially part of Monad and he was of Ergo. This kind of displays an interesting pattern which begs the question " what are the titles of the other 297 out of 300 proxies? and is there others who have the same affinity as these characters to one another? if they were designed to be isolated from each other why were Sun and moon so closely bindend (even though their domes perished as a result of the pseudohumans dying out) and why did the creators give them such symbolic titles and roles? or were they giving these titles to themselves?
3-I wished there was more depth regarding the ties between the proxies rather than their reason for being there, as well more information regarding the mutated humans who were living in those caves. The idea that after thousands of years these humans were affected but able to reproduce despite their mutation shows that the pseudo-humans weren't in fact able to do that in the first place despite them being in the "safe" cocoon because they are the incomplete image of the proxies which created them, each proxy had different emotions and each one incorporated them in their pseudohumans, which makes them as incomplete as they are and as unstable.
4- The enigmatic elements in each episode left me frustrated to no end, as i want to uncover more about each dome they visited, why did it collapse? who were the proxies in them? what "title" were they given?
10 years and yet I wish there was more for us from the authors but regardless of the gaps I think its one of the most beautifully orchestrated plots in Anime series.
Is Ergo Proxy's mask a representation of Monad?
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